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First Layer Issue
#1
Hi all,

First of all I'd like to thank the entire Voltivo Forum community for all the resources that helped me a great bunch in the success of my flashed DaVinci 1.0 with Repetier 0.92 along with other helpful information.

I was a noob in the acutal 3d printing world about 3 days ago. (I've seen the 3d printing done at friends house and understood a little bit about how this thing work just by talking to people.) However, a few days ago I decided to take out the DaVinci in the office, which nobody loves after they had purchased a new makerbot, and flash the firmware to have full control of this machine!

I am currently using simplify 3D as my primary control/slicer software. S3D talks to the printer no problem, and I did about 1 day worth of testing and calibrating during work, but there's one thing I just can't quite get. I've done the bed leveling calibration in the S3D (software does 'Home All' first, then moves to different corners while I manually slide a business card between the nozzle tip and the bed surface to adjust the leveling screws), all seemed fine and dandy. BUT! the nozzle is always far off in the Z-axis for the first layer - skirt/brim (about 3mm), which creates awful wavy lines that could by ruined easily by the nozzle head movement across the bed during 2nd pass.

SO the first layer nozzle-to-bed surface is about 3~4mm (huge gap IMHO), but as the printer goes on, the nozzle tip is extremely close to the previous layer, almost zero layer height, the print is still able to finished the print job without problems, but sure not top-notch quality.

Am i missing something in the settings that I am not aware of? I print ABS extruder @ 235C, bed @ 110C. speed 4000mm/min. first layer height 80%.
I am suspecting the first layer height 80% could be the cause, as the result is complete opposite of what I think the setting is for.

Sorry I'm posting from home since I couldn't spare time at work to write posts, so I don't have any screenshots of the settings and/or pictures of my test print results. I might do that tomorrow when I get into the office.

Meanwhile, any help or suggestions would be much appreciated!
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#2
Welcome to the forum, Pat! You say you flashed your firmware, did you reset your settings after you flashed? You may still have old calibration settings. From Luc's .92 ReadMe:

"After printer restarted do not forget to send G-Code M502 then M500 from repetier's Print Panel tab or from the printer menu "Settings/Load Fail-Safe" and accept to save the new eeprom settings. "

I ran into the same thing and thought it was a problem with my printer definition. Try clearing out your eeprom settings and then doing a manual calibration. Also make sure you dont have a Z offset defined in your slicing software.
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#3
Thanks a lot Nepenthy. I am pretty sure I did do the "Settings/Load Fail-Safe" because that was the hiccup I had before the 1st print, but I decided to follow your suggestion and run the M502 and M500 code again to get a fresh reset. IT WORKED!!!

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. Now the print quality is closer to the thousand-dollar Makerbot that everyone else is waiting in-line to print their projects.

Now I just got to fix the squeaking sounds that others are pointing to the left side pulley bearing.

Again, Thank you very much : )
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#4
Pat, You're very welcome! Glad you got it sorted. In my case my motivation greatly surpassed my skill set and understanding. I would flash the printer, do the reset, then promptly do an eeprom restore from repetitive host, effectively over writing the reset.. Made me really question whether I was smart enough to own a 3d printer! Jumping straight to s3d will save you alot of the headaches and confusion while you get ramped up.
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#5
Youre very welcome, Pat! Im glad you got it sorted. When I first started printing my motivation greatly surpassed my skillset and understanding. I would flash the printer, do a reset, then promptly reload an eeprom backup, effectively overriding the reset. Made me really question if I was smart enough to own a printer!

Starting out with simplify 3d should help you avoid alot of the trial and error issue with slicers, so good move there. My prints turned out magically awesome the day I switched over to s3d. I could probably go back now and get great prints with slic3r/Cura with the lessons learned.
Something tells me your printer is going to be cranking non stop for a couple weeks now, have fun!
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#6
Yea. Appreciate it. I usually do a handful of online research before diving into a project to save time down the road. Completely agree with you on the S3D selection. I've used/seen a few slic3r software and non have the amount of manual control like S3D.

If you don't mind, I'm going to pick your brain a little bit more in this thread. Finish side-surface (perimeter) of my print are not aligned precisely, as in each layer the x, y may be off by a hair or two, resulting the product requires sanding or add clay to ensure the surface built-up looks perfect. Would the cause be just the print speed is too fast or is it more involved like the hardware precision/accuracy problem?
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#7
Id personally look at the bed and belts for that. My bed wobbled quite a bit at first so I ended up taking the bushings out and wrapping them with electrical tape until i got a snug fit. After the bed doesnt move around, id do some circle calibration tests to determine if i needed to work on the x/y, such as replacing the bearing holders, shims, belt tighten....etc.

If you don't mind, I'm going to pick your brain a little bit more in this thread. Finish side-surface (perimeter) of my print are not aligned precisely, as in each layer the x, y may be off by a hair or two, resulting the product requires sanding or add clay to ensure the surface built-up looks perfect. Would the cause be just the print speed is too fast or is it more involved like the hardware precision/accuracy problem?[/quote]
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#8
S3d's davinci definition is pretty good, you are more than likely up against hardware. My bed was very loose and I could move it side to side with ease. I removed the z platform and wrapped some electrical tape around the bushings to take up the slack. After bed is resolved it should greatly reduce flaws on X and Y. After bed is fixed, circle calibration tests to see if you need further tweaks on x/y via spacers, new bearing holders, belt tension....etc.
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#9
This is what I got out of my Davinci 1.0A + Repetier 0.92 + S3D, I've done about 10 print jobs so far after flashing to Repetier.
This is the most recent for about 2 hours worth of print of 6 bone structure parts.

I did manual bed level calibration right before this print job, so hopefully bed level shouldn't be a cause to the problem.
following are my settings: Davici stock ABS filament. @ 0.15mm layer, Extruder Temp 230C, Bed Temp 110C
rest of detail settings -> http://imgur.com/a/KFI4F/all

exterior still looks rough


underside is really messy with crazy circular paths.


Some tiny dots protruding on the surface.


Any thoughts on what I could adjust to improve the print quality?[Image: IMG_0176.JPG][Image: IMG_0178.JPG][Image: IMG_0177.JPG]
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#10
You use the XYZ filament as it seems
Use another brand name - will be night and day
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#11
Are you using xyz filament? Your prints looks like nearly everything I print with my remaining xyz filament. The reason I ask is xyz filament has moisture issues from what I've seen. Can you hear the filament popping and cracking from the moisture being heated while you're printing?
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#12
I am using the XYZ filament indeed.....unfortunately we had purchased a bunch of XYZ filament not long after we bought the machine (simply because nobody knew better and we had budget on hand at the time..). Do all XYZ filament act this way or is it because it's been out of the box for so long? if I open a new sealed box would it make a difference?

In terms of popping sound, I only recall hearing it when I do a 'clean nozzle' when the nozzle is freestanding without the bed right underneath with a constant flow of filament protruding.
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#13
XYZ filament is crappy - I use mine when doing test and for first version of new object - but definitely use another brand and you will see how 3D print is nice
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#14
Thanks Luc and Nepenthy. You all are very helpful as usual.

That's bad news to hear XYZ filament are crappy. Now I gotta figure out how to use up all 10 rolls of them (9 of them are still sealed in plastic wrap in boxes)
However, I will try out other brand filament tomorrow to see what happens!

Do fresh XYZ filament do better? or are they just horrible in general? If it's only the moisture issue then I can try to come up with a way to keep it sealed or something.. 10 rolls is a nightmare to throw away (or awful a lot of tests and first version of new objects).
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#15
XyZ filament is not that great, but a freshly opened cart would definitely be better than one thats been exposed to the air for awhile. The plaster cast/ bubbly surface of your prints is a result of moisture in the plastic. I keep all my opened filament in a rubbermaid container with all the silica gel I can find. There is also a way to bake your filament on low heat to remove the moisture, although Ive never tried it. I personally wouldnt bother with trying to calibrate/fine tune my printer or settings with XYZ filament loaded.
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#16
I see. I was just doing a bit of research on filament moisture right after you guys had mentioned it. I will try a different manufacturer filament first, and then pull out a fresh cart of XYZ just to test out the difference (or to see how bad it actually is..maybe I will post comparison photos).

Just remembered that we also have damp-proof cabinet for DLSR storage like this in the office. Will try to keep opened filaments in these for storage for now on.
[img]
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#17
To store my rolls I use plastic bags with zipper and silicate gel packs - it works very well
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#18
What you are seeing with the first layer is normal and Im guessing is a side effect of the way the first layer is laid down, usually by over-extruding to assist with bed adhesion and a level starting point.

After seeing a couple of your "finishing" statements, acetone vapor bath deserves a worthy mention. If youre not familiar with the process, look into it if youre spending a good deal of time smoothing your finished object.
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#19
Regarding printing a sphere, I've run into this myself. I found that the best thing to do is to simply slice the object in half. Print half of each sphere at a time. If you're using ABS you can take a paintbrush and just brush each half with a little bit of Acetone as glue to glue them together. For pla regular super glue will work. Hope this helps.
Kieth
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#20
Thanks to you all.

Sorry I am a bit late on posting my progress. Was really eager to open a new spool of ABS the next day, but co-workers were complaining about the ABS fumes. So I switched to PLA in hopes to rid the complaints. Little did I know that Davinci 1.0 isn't compatible with PLA, with multiple attempts that the filament kept getting stuck inside the extruder assembly. Then finally decided to get online and found that PLA just isn't going to cut it with this stock hotend.

Now I've moved the printer to another area with good ventilation and back to printing ABS. This is what I got with 3rd party ABS filament.

printed @ 0.2mm. surface is still noticeable with layer lines, but quality is definitely better. print patterns are behaving great and no bubble dots.


A bit of warping, but it's just a spool stand! Not going to beat myself over it. Plus it's a good size print, so I was expecting some warping to occur.



Figured I'd be self-sufficient by making a spool stand before I begin printing any fun toys and creations.

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Luc - I did read about the plastic bag with zipper trick. Freeze size ziplock is on my shopping list now.

Nepenthy - What are your experiences with Acetone vapor method? I've seen a handful of Youtube video but they all seems to loose quite a bit of details (corners and edges) along with the surfaces being 'melted smooth and shiny'. Was thinking about finishing 3d prints with #400,#800 sand paper and clay putty to diminish the lines, then spray paint coat. but not sure if this is an overkill method.

Keith - Yes. Am very glad that Nepenthy and Luc have been great help all along the way. I will definitely try your method.

Can I buy you all a burrito or something to show my appreciation? Ha. Though I am all the way across the globe in Taiwan, but I really do thank you for your help. Kudos to the power of internet and the makers community.[Image: IMG_0234.JPG][Image: IMG_0236.JPG][Image: IMG_0235.JPG]
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