Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Da Vinci Borosilicate glass heated bed
#1
Just wanted to pass on that after months of being down with two broken heated bed glass I am finally able to offer the heated beds in Borosilicate glass (Borofloat brand) with the heater attached. It's a plug and play deal using same brand of heater as the original (slightly upgraded by my request)
Anyway. Don't want to clog up the forum, just spreading the word.

Borosilicate Heated Bed


[Image: Heater-and-glass.jpg]
Reply
#2
You are a sir!
Reply
#3
Seems expensive since the OEM replacement from XYZ (including the thermistor and plastic bed) is $60. What justifies the additional cost? Also, is the heater adhered better than in the picture? The air bubbles can cause uneven heating and damage the heating element.
Reply
#4
Quote:Seems expensive since the OEM replacement from XYZ (including the thermistor and plastic bed) is $60. What justifies the additional cost? Also, is the heater adhered better than in the picture? The air bubbles can cause uneven heating and damage the heating element.

Hi Tom,
Thanks for the comment.
Yes it is a little expensive compared to other 3D printer heated beds although it is less than the original XYZ replacement. Not to mention that they never have them in stock.
When I called for a replacement I was quoted "For the heated bed, we sell the whole Z-axis platform with the bed and it is priced at $100.00+tax(if applicable)+shipping."

First off, the glass is Borosilicate where as the original is cheap glass that flakes and cracks very easy. Both of mine flaked within 30 days of purchase. One cracked completely rendering the printer useless.
I looked at Borosilicate glass from China and the price would have been less but instead I decided on the Borofloat brand as it is very high quality glass made in Germany.
Borosilicate glass has a low expansion coefficient and does not develop the stresses that flake and crack normal glass. So the heated bed should last much longer if not for the rest of the printer's life.
Secondly, the heater is made by the same company that makes the heater for XYZ Printing. Same quality and is the latest design from them.

The heater does have some spots where it does not fully contact the glass. If you look at the original heater, it has the same problem. (see photo of my original glass)
The reason for it is that the heater is not flat and will not lay flat on the glass because it does not stretch. I have tried many different "tricks" to get the heater to lay flat including vacuum bagging, heating it before applying, ironing it down and multiple methods of fixing it to the glass. Bottom line is that the heater is not flat and will not lay flat on the glass. The "bubbles" look worse than they are due to the lighting angle.
As far as damaging the heater. I have not seen it on my printers and both of them have the same "bubbles". The theory sounds good but I would not pass judgement without solid proof that the heater will be damaged.
As far as uneven heating of the glass. That is the main reason for using Borosilicate glass, it can take the uneven heating without developing stresses.

In the end my product is superior to the original equipment and sells for less.


[Image: Old-heater.jpg]
Reply
#5
Thanks for the reply.

Not sure why you were quoted $100, I just got one for $60+s/h from XYZ.

Yes, some of the original heaters have bubbles, some do not. I have 3 here from XYZ and one is bubble-free. I'm not worried about the glass' ability to take heat stress; I'm well aware of the capabilities of borosilicate glass... I'm more concerned with uneven heating and the effects on 3d prints (lifting, warping, etc). I've had less problems with my one heated bed that has no bubbles between the heater and the glass.

As far as the bubbles and damage... I haven't seen it in this application yet, but I've seen it in other similar heating elements.

I didn't realize the glass XYZ is using was NOT borosilicate, so that answers my question. The better glass = added value = extra cost. It is still a few dollars cheaper than XYZ's offering.
Reply
#6
Hi Tom,

Thanks for the reply.

Something to consider if you're in the market for a new heated bed.
I will sell the heater and glass separate.

I contacted XYZ in an attempt to get my glass replaced under warranty. I was contacted by Charles on September 22, 2014 and that is what he said in his email.
Note that I was also trying to get the broken bearing holders replaced. Two of the four were broken when I received the printer.
I have since replaced all four with printed models as well as installing the shims and aligning the carriage. Now my 25mm block is 25.01 x 24.98 mm

Full text of the email:
Quote:Hi James,

For the heated bed, we sell the whole Z-axis platform with the bed and it is priced at $100.00+tax(if applicable)+shipping. I will see if we have the other parts available for purchasing. For the “belt adjustment brackets”, are you speaking of the Y-axis belt tensioners? Or if you could possible send a few pictures are so we can confirm actual parts. Thanks.
Reply
#7
James -

I didn't mean to imply that I didn't believe you about the price you were quoted, I was just saying that I JUST bought one for $60. XYZ seems to be pretty inconsistent so I'm not surprised. I spoke with Charles (maybe they're all Charles) recently because I fried the control board.

Sorry if it came across wrong, I was just curious what the difference was between your product and the OEM. Now I know, and I agree that yours is a better option. Also good to know that you'll sell the glass and heater separately.

Thanks!
Reply
#8
Hi Tom,
My turn to apologize. I did not mean to insinuate that there was doubt. Mostly I wanted to point out my frustration in dealing with XYZ and the fact that they would not replace parts under warranty.
Perhaps they would have replaced the parts if I had pressed them more?
Maybe they are all named Charles )

How did you come out on the fried board?
What do you think fried it?

Thanks,
James
Reply
#9
XYZ replaced it after about a month of back and forth (after they tried a new bed and bed thermistor first). New controller solved it.

I know exactly what fried it (but don't tell XYZ lol)... I was cleaning ABS slurry off the glass bed with a razor blade, I slipped and the blade caught both the heated bed wire and the bed thermistor wire... shorted... machine reset... after the reset, it read 111C extruder and 120C bed, despite them being room temp.
Reply
#10
I think what helped me get replacement parts was CES... because every time they posted on facebook about some new product at CES, I posted about how their warranty and customer service suck...
Reply
#11
Hey Tom,
You said that you had some heated beds that were without bubbles so I couldn't let it go.
I came up with the idea of applying the heater to the glass starting on the cable side and worked it down about 1/4 inch at a time.
Success, no bubbles at all.
However in my focus on getting a bubble free heater, I skewed the heater and it's about 2mm off square!

If anyone wants my test piece I'll let it go for $40.00.
The heater is not on straight but it's perfectly usable.

Thanks

James
Reply
#12
I'll take that skewed piece off your hands if there's no taker yet.

Thanks
Reply
#13
Contact me via email to exchange info
jdholbrook33 (at) yahoo.com
I can ship it out today.

Thanks

James
Reply
#14
James -

In your experience, does the boro glass warp less when hot? I find my OEM bed has a large dip in the middle when heated...
Reply
#15
Tom,
The main reason for using the Borosilicate glass is that it doesn't warp and develop internal stresses like normal glass.
It expands much less when heated and also distributes the heat more evenly.

That is also the reason why I chose to use Borofloat brand of the Borosilicate glass.
It is made in Germany and is super flat and consistent.
I could have saved $4 per glass by using China glass but I'm a bit old school and wanted the heated beds to be right.

Nothing in my prints suggested that the bed was warped.
Just now I ran this test:
I checked in 8 places, 3 in the X direction, 3 in the Y direction. One near the front, one in the middle and one near the back, same in the Y only 90 degrees.
I checked diagonally across the glass from corner to corner both ways.
Using a real straight edge, not a ruler.(I have a small machine shop with CNC Taig mill, Taig lathe and 9x20 JET lathe etc..)
I found no warping at 22c, 50c and 90c
Perfectly flat in all axis. (don't forget to take the glue off before measuring! Wink )

Thanks

James
Reply
#16
Great, that's what I wanted to hear. I'm tired of calibrating my bed at the 4 external points only to find a huge gap when it goes to the middle point. I'll be in touch to order one later this week (after payday). Do you mind shipping the glass and heater not attached? I'd like to try and lay the heater on myself.
Reply
#17
I'll be happy to send the heater and glass separate.
I'll reduce the price by $5.00
It's a big risk to assemble the heater to the glass. One mistake and wasted heater!
I tried to take it off even after just about 1/4" of the heater being stuck to the glass.
Fail!!
If you touch it to the glass it will come off (not easy!) if you press it to the glass. Forget it.

Thanks

James
Reply
#18
Hi James, seems as though the ebay listing in the original post is over. Are you planning on listing anymore?
Reply
#19
Hello Kevin,

Yes I am listing it again today.
I'm trying to get some better photos. Really need one of those light tents.
Reply
#20
I've been looking at different thermistors (and 200mm*200mm*3mm borosilicate) and of the ones that both fit AND meet the power requirements I'd either be spending more or compromising on quality, which is why my most recent prints had bits of glass embedded in them. @James Holbrook I've ordered your part good sir, and I'll happily give it a full review for our fellow members after I receive it and do some thorough testing. Smile

Attaching a pic of my OLD print bed. It finally gave out and snapped clean in half. Normally, I had been using painters tape, however tall builds kept wobbling and falling over, so I decided to risk using some heat resistant resin (from a windshield chip repair kit) to smooth over the chips and this happened anyway.

[Image: 1613904_10152922083916054_3947891391704370279_n.jpg]
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)