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quality of xyz
#1
After seeing how poorly this printer is constructed. I am going to pass on this and go with a different company. At least theirs doesnt have so many design flaws or a need to change the firmware.

Maybe in 5 years after they fix alot I might reconsider. Yet to me, this printer is more headache than I want.
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#2
@willy For it's current price $500 USD. This printer is good for this price range. I believe this is the only one in this price range and has a heated bed. I got my printer used around $300 USD with 0030 error code. I don't mind a little fix/flash to make it work. If you just want a printer just work out of the box and worry free. It might not be a good choice for you.
But compare to the Makerbot replicator 5th gen my company got .... Da Vinci is much easier to fix and tune up ... Our replicator 5gen cost 6 times more and can't even do auto leveling correctly to print first layer right.. The smart extruder is a joke. We replace smart extruder like 4 times and it still doesn't print right. Please don't get Makerbot replicator 5th gen if you are thinking about other printer.
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#3
Not looking at a makerbot. Looking at a PrintRbot Simple metal at the same price.
-Doesnt need to have the firmware changed.
-Doesnt have filament issues.
-Has metal parts that are not needing shims or epoxy as the above posts show.
-It is only a 6x6 bed yet for the headaches that the xyz presents, pass.

The xyz is looking more like a used car here in Maine with a new price. Used cars here require some tinkering to keep them running. You can keep it if that is what you like.
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#4
Haha. Good luck! I wish you the best. However, judging by your list of complaints and your assumptions, I'd recommend you stay out of 3d printing altogether.
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#5
All printers require some fixing. Even $3000 ultimaker's.
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#6
I've moved this to a more applicable thread/location, as it was completeltly off topic.

The xyz isn't for everyone. Having said that, It does as advertised. It prints less than 10 minutes out of the box. It doesn't require a firmware change unless you want to do things it isn't advertised as doing. It's accurate and reliable enough for 99% of home print jobs, out of the box. No, it isn't gold plated. And no, if you use the printer *as advertised* there is NO filament issue. :-O

When you look at the problems some of us have, is important to know WHY the problem occurred and how many hours the printer has been used. My printer -I'm betting- has more hours in a few months than most home users will print in a few years years... I'm betting Josh thinks the same.

The fact is, most every printer on the market can be improved.

I've done cost analysis on the machine, I'll tell you xyz is NOT getting rich on this iten. (Filament, yes. Printer, no. ) You would be very hard pressed to BUILD, much less buy a printer of this quality for the price. For instance, I'm building a printed tantillus and I can tell you I already have 300 bucks in it, and I'm at least another hundred or so from being done. (!)

I assume your looking at a KIT for the cost you mentioned?

I almost bought the smaller printrbot that's 350, but then decided it would never be as reliable or accurate as a commercially built machine. Having seen other 3d printers and their print quality, my mind hasn't been changed.

Anyhow, keep us updated on how that works out for you.

Kieth
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#7
Quote:Haha. Good luck! I wish you the best. However, judging by your list of complaints and your assumptions, I'd recommend you stay out of 3d printing altogether.

BIG "[size=CMS2CMS_LARGE]+1[/size]" on that.
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#8
Like bret4 said all low cost 3D printer needs some tweaks or fix. No matter what printer you chose I wish you good luck. I think for starter I will recommend at least get a printer with heated bed. Then you can have more choice on what material you can print. Unless you only want to print PLA, then chose one with no heatbed.
I don't own a printbot but I know a friend has old wood printrbot-simple. I can tell you he likes Da Vinci better because he just got one last week & fully hacked and modded.

For the printerbot simple metal here is a Quote form the review. ( He also mention Da Vinci in the review )
http://www.serialhobbyism.com/review-of-...metal-kit/
"Should you buy one (Printrbot Simple Metal )?
Unfortunately, there is no answer that will fit everyone. If you’re looking for a 3D printer which you can can just take out of the shipping box, plug in, and print with immediately, then this probably isn’t for you. But if you’re the type of person who likes tinkering and doesn’t mind taking the time to setup a 3D printer and fine tune it, then the Printrbot Simple Metal is a fantastic choice."

Steven
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#9
The daVinci is a good printer. It does have some issues, but which 3D printer doesn't? If you compare quality of the da Vinci to the other printers out there. It is built extremely well. I have a WanHao and Flashforge as well and for half the cost, the quality of the da Vinci isby far the best in terms of build quality. You can also tweak it to make your prints comparable to other higher priced 3d printers.

Could they have used better parts? Of course, but this can be said for any printer. Great thing about 3D printers is that you can print it's own upgrade parts. At the moment my da Vinci is down, because I am changing out heatbed, extruder, and adding a fan for PLA print (all for less than $100). So to me and I am sure for others this printer is a great deal! Another printer I have found to be a good deal is buying a refurbished solidoodle from the manufacturer for 50% or more off the original price.

Good luck with whichever printer you decide as having them has been beneficial and fun. Big Grin
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#10
Thankyou for moving the thread. I did feel some what awkward attaching it to your existing thread.

I am curious about how many hours you did need to do for the wear to happen?
Nothing is set in stone yet about whose printer I will go with.
At this time the limiting factors are as follows;
Price, around $600, I realize shipping will bring it over cost.
Delivery, originally in the summer of 2013 I was speculating on a Solidoodle version 2. Yet Solidoodle still hasnt ramped up production enough to have a ready supply of printers for immediate delivery. So either a XYZ or a PrintRbot metal simple. I think it is wrong to have a wooden frame printer as eventually warping WILL happen.
Ease of use: By this I mean that whom ever that supplies a machine I am not burdened by using proprietary software or filament. Alas XYZ fails in those categories.
Durability: I am a machinist to some degree. I am well aware of tolerances. To have seen that the printer has wear issues after some time is a concern for me. A printer to me does require a setup time. Yet once it is set up, should not be having mechanical defects in a matter of months after heavy use. There will be regular maintenance requirements on any machine. This is also why I am concerned about a wooden frame of a printer. The swelling from humidity will throw setup off, and if your doing a 24 hour print with our humidity here in Maine, you are really screwed!

While I do appreciate all comments, the negative ones or ones that are insulting for me having an opinion different from yours only serves to detract from my interest in reading your future posts.
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#11
I just wanted to chime in because I've been 3D printing since first generation RepRap Mendel, and like many of the guys here I've seen a lot in the way of printers.

I've build 3 Repraps (2 mendels and a prusa), and a Rostock. I've also worked with 2 professional dust printers. In all cases, these things are finicky. There isn't a single hobby model that isn't going to require work right out of the box, whether it's calibration or hardware modification.

Reprap and all of its derivatives suffer from "never completed hardware" syndrome where the designers just move on when they find a flaw they don't like. This leaves those flaws to be solved by the community. In addition to that, the software always needs tweaking before it will work right. And in the end, you end up fighting with a lot of small things that affect your print quality.

On the professional side, the machines tend to work right out of the box, but they do require proper maintenance. If you skip a cleaning, or have just a little left over dust in the chamber, you might not end up with a print. Of course, these printers are far more reliable and require less maintenance. For this service and instant ability to use, you pay dearly. The cheapest dust printer with a decent volume that I've seen is around 50k USD, and it's a China-stock printer.

The DaVinci, however, prints right out of the box. I bought one about a month ago, and had it printing in less time than it took to assemble a single axis on a reprap. Unlike every reprap derivative I've seen, it doesn't have belt issues, Z-Axis issues, staggering, drooping, or any number of print quality issues. The print quality beats most reprap derivatives. After I printed a few things, it took approximately 5 minutes of prep time followed by 8 seconds of upload time for me to flash the new firmware on. After that, it took 30 minutes to calibrate. Now, the quality is better.

So if you want something that requires no work to start, and only maintenance, then go buy a professional printer. However if you want something for less than half of the cost of a Reprap derivative printer, that prints in about 15 minutes, then Da Vinci is the best I've found.

Also, beware of cheap metal kits that come in the build it yourself printer kits. In the mendels and prusas I've made that do not have solid end caps, the daily hot-cold cycle of my house (in Florida), loosens the end bolts and messes up the whole frame by millimeters over the course of a week, causing print quality to severely drop. I've literally hot-glued or epoxied them in place to keep the frame shapes.
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#12
Since it was brought up in this topic, I should go with the Da Vinci 1.0 or a Solidoodle 3 (refurb). I have been bitten before as an early adopter to a community, just to watch those who started off strong jump ship to something better.

What is holding me back is that to get the best prints from the Da Vinci, you need to flash the printer with the repetier firmware and the community right now is small. Also the firmware seems to be in beta, possibly alpha. What I do love is that the community has rallied and quickly worked out a lot of the problems. I also love the fact that a dual extruder is possible.

The Solidoodle community seems to be larger at this time, but it seems to me that you need to also tweak the firmware to install the E3d extruder for the best prints. With this printer, you can do ABS and PLA without too much tweaking, but have yet seen anyone print PLA on the Da Vinci.

What made you decide on the Da Vinci over other printers? I know that tweaking a 3d setup is normal and I am not opposed to that, I just want something that I can upgrade in due time and works until then.
Thanks.
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#13
I havent gone to any printer yet. The Solidoodle still uses plastic parts as well as the acrylic head.

If I did, it would be the printrbot. There is a $80 accessory that gives you an 8x8 build, yet all the parts are metal with a sensor for auto leveling. What I found to be the most interesting. Was the lack of postings in the PrintRbot forums. No one is complaining about any difficulties. They just work, plain and simple. No set up issues, it looks as if some one finally got it right.


Mind you I wont be doing anything till March of 2015 when my finances will be stronger than what they are now.
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#14
The XYZWare is what it is. As it comes, it's not very good at fine detail. You can't use it for printing the yoda head & similar things people like to show off with. For printing functional items (i.e. - my bolo tie hanger, end caps for a pipe, parts I designed for 3d aircraft, etc) where having something that works is a major upgrade, it works just fine. I did do one bit of jewelry, and then uploaded it to Shapeways to print it on their expen$ive printers after printing tests on the DaVinci. Worked fine.

I'm not convinced they're making a killing on filament. Using a cartridge lets them do things that you can't do with a spool, like verify that the model was sliced for the material in the cartridge, that you have enough to actually print with, etc.Unfortunately, the implementation of that is the worst part of the system. It also means they don't have to worry about supporting whatever crap can be bought from ebay.

Printing with PLA requires hardware mods, in spite of their promise to support it. Printing with TPE appears to be impossible with the extruder that's on it. PVA? Who knows. Printing transparent also requires hardware mods, but is trivial. More colors? I can get white and a can of spray pint. So as far as I'm concerned, the only real reason to use other filaments is the price. THeir price is something like 4.3¢/gram, in line with what SolidDoodle and other printer manufacturers charge for spools of filament, and what Adafruit charges for the spools they sell. I could try buying cheaper stuff, but if I understand correctly I'd have to tweak settings to get the same quality prints. Further, dealing with spools (I have done it) is more painful than the cartridges, and I'd have to depend on the ebay vendor or the Amazon listing to provide the same filament on a consistent basis. Since the cost savings on one spool of filament won't pay for a bum spool, it doesn't seem worth the trouble.

So - I've been using it for six months as intended by the manufacturer - well, mostly. I sometimes use slic3r, but the results are always better. Maybe I need to tune it better. However, recently it's started losing the cartridge connection. This is particularly annoying 10 hours into a 14 hour print. Silly damn thing. XYZWare support suggested checking all the connections (though they initially pointed at the wrong ones) and cleaning the contacts. Cleaning it helps some, but I just installed a brand new cartridge and it failed. Bah. Maybe it's a climate issue, but I've had enough of this. So I'm starting the process of replacing the firmware.
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#15
I have had a makerbot clone - - - new and a new solidoogle 4, both were a piece of crap. - - - on the maker bot clone - - the print heads were not at the same height and caused problems with the lower head destroying the print. - - then cable run issues caused breaking of wires - - after 5 weeks.

the solidoogle had loose screws for the lower door hinge, the filament pusher was not positioned property. and ground the filament caused slippage
the fans were so loud that it was driving me crazy and were on anytime power was on - - - and oh - - no power switch so always on - - - and the big topper
the cable going to the y axis motor actually laid over the print bed, and would catch as the y axis went back and forth and when the print bed raised and lowered ithe cable would snap from the bottom to the top and back again as the print bed went up and down.
the solidoogle arrived on a Monday and was returned to the Ebay Seller that was near by on Friday - - -

also all of the start up software had to be configured - - the printer would not even home itself. Temps keep defaulting to way to high of temperatures. Days later i had it with the printer - - - sure I could have fixed the problems - - rerun the Y axis cables, and replaced all of the fans with lower power and much quieter fans - - but why? New out of the box - - - assembly problems by the manufacture - - - no quality control - - - I showed the ebay seller the issues and he refunded my money right then and there.

So far the XYZ 2 has worked quite well - - well built, the only time that I had any strange noise is when some filament got on the Z axis threaded rod. removed and all is fine - - some software issues with huge prints. - - - - - now want to upgrade the firmware

only my software version is 2.0 J and does not seem to want to go to browse for file - - - ugh

Jim P
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#16
I am printing PLA on my XYZ duo. - - - I experimented with lower print temps and badly jammed the print head, I mean hours of trying to force the PLA into a too low of temp setting hot end - - - took awhile to get the print head apart, I did say jammed - - - note Jam was my fought - - -

after taking it apart, I reviewed the design, being a design engineer, I found it was very well designed - - quality manufacturing - - - the only short coming that I could find was lack of heat sink grease - - - - The heat sink to the heat spreader bar had no heat sink compound, - - and the AL shaft was also lacking in heat sink grease - - So I added some. Now it seems to work better, - - - - no more PLA jams in the hot end. the heat sink compound improves the heat transfer No more air gaps - - -

that has been my only suggestion for improvements
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#17
I agree this is a great 3d printer, especially for the low price, ($349.00) at the egg company. The filament works just fine. I got mine yesterday and have printed 5 objects without a hiccup.
[Image: IMG_20150624_144245.jpg]
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#18
I have two XYZ printers (1.0 and 1.1 Plus) and will have to say out of the box it can be daunting if you don't know what you're doing.  Some people fix this by flashing their printers to a custom firmware, I went down a different route...  I'm using Simplfy3D software which supports both printers natively and doesn't require a custom firmware.  Using Simply3D gives me controls you don't have with the XYZ Software and if you want better prints without having to modify your printer get that software.   I'm okay with the using their cartridge at this point in time, but I may look into a "Zero Cart" solution other than reflashing my printers.

To say that they have bad quality isn't really true, like others every printer can have their own set of issues but you have to work though them.  My 1.0 just worked out of the box and my 1.1 needed some tweaking to make work well (had to adjust the Z-Axis offset after calibration).   For the price that I've paid for these printers I'd say they're very well worth it.

I guess your results may vary and everyone had their own opinions.

Lem
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#19
You may also want to try Novio 3D printer, I bought one and they are selling it on eBay for a lower price as they are on a promotional period. This 3D printer has changeable printhead where you can easily change the nozzle size without buying another 3D printer for you to have your needed nozzle tip size. A surprisingly great 3d printer to use.
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#20
(08-24-2016, 03:51 AM)Gaver1974 Wrote: You may also want to try Novio 3D printer, I bought one and they are selling it on eBay for a lower price as they are on a promotional period. This 3D printer has changeable printhead where you can easily change the nozzle size without buying another 3D printer for you to have your needed nozzle tip size. A surprisingly great 3d printer to use.

It's a two year old thread.  I'm guessing the person is still putting the kit together.  Lol

Kieth
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